Martin van Creveld interview - Sonshi - The original Sun Tzu's Art of War resource

Sonshi - The original Sun Tzu's Art of War resource

Home

Sun Tzu

Start the path to victory

Who was Sun Tzu?

What is Sonshi?

Sun Tzu's Art of War Translation

Best Art of War Books

Official Sonshi Art of War book

Interviews with Art of War authors and scholars

Sun Tzu lives on slideshow

Sun Tzu's Way slideshow

Articles related to Art of War and strategy

Blog

Store

About

Contact

Online since 1999

Martin van Creveld interview

When you talk about military history and strategy, you can't help but cite Dr. Martin van Creveld, author of such notable works as The Transformation of War and Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton. He has written 17 books so far and is a professor at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem, where he has been teaching since 1971.

According to Dr. Chet Richards, van Creveld's Fighting Power was among the late Col. John Boyd's favorites. Any book worthy of John Boyd's attention is worthy enough for any serious student of strategy.

His book The Transformation of War tells us of fourth generation warfare (4GW) -- not the term he used but that’s what it is. Richards wrote, "Van Creveld has seen the future, and you won't like it: It's non-trinitarian, non-Clausewitzian, and probably not winnable by organized state armies." In other words, more like the world Sun Tzu competed in. Martin van Creveld, then, is not only a foremost thinker of warfare's history but also of its future.

As you will see in our interview with him, he did not mince words with us. And we wouldn't want it any other way. When we informed him of a news article about how Bush officials bristle at the suggestion the war in Iraq looks like Vietnam, he replied, "Well, let them do some bristling. These people should be impeached, tried and punished for misleading the American people into a senseless war. They can then spend their time in prison reading Clausewitz and Sun Tzu." Whether you agree or disagree, Martin van Creveld's words have substance and are not mere conjecture. Dismiss them at our nation's peril.

Enjoy the interview!

Sonshi.com: In your book The Art of War: War and Military Thought, you stated Sun Tzu’s The Art of War is “the best work on war ever.” This is a distinct compliment to Sun Tzu considering your vast knowledge and analyses of history’s works on warfare, from von Buelow to Jomini to Clausewitz. Would you mind sharing your thoughts about Sun Tzu and what distinguishes him from other military writers?

van Creveld: Let me start by saying that Sun Tzu does not need my praise. His work has lived for over two thousand years, and will surely live for another two thousand without any help from me.

To my mind, what sets Sun Tzu apart are the following three qualities.

First, like Clausewitz's On War, The Art of War is not a cookbook. It does not focus on telling readers how to make war, but provides an entire philosophy. By so doing, it raises itself above the momentary political, economic, social, technological, and cultural circumstances under which it was written. It creates a framework for thought that may be used by anyone out to understand or wage war, at any time, at any place.

Second, unlike On War, The Art of War is a Daoist text. The significance of this is that Sun Tzu sees war not as a means to an end, let alone as a positive good, but as a necessary evil. While fully aware of the vital role war plays in human affairs and prepared to do whatever it takes to win, he never allows the reader to forget what a horrible business it is. This in turn results in The Art of War being pervaded by a deep humanity which On War, precisely because it treats war as a means to an end, does not display.

Third, whereas On War is a weighty philosophical treatise The Art of War is at the same time a work of art; in this respect it resembles Lao Tzu as well as Plato. I am no Chinese scholar, but those who are tell me that each word rings like a bell. To some extent, this quality comes through even in translation.

Sonshi.com: You have lectured or taught at virtually every strategic institute in the Western world, including the US Naval War College, and have already written 17 books. What first got you interested in writing and teaching about military history and strategy, and what keeps you continuing to do so?

van Creveld: For an answer, look up the introduction to Plato's Republic. Here, Socrates says that the imaginary city he and his interlocutors are about to construct will act like a magnifying mirror for looking into the human soul. With war, things are similar. More than any other human activity, war subjects men—both as individuals and in large groups—to the most extreme conditions. By so doing it brings out the human soul in all its baseness and all its glory.

Sonshi.com: It has been said there are two major camps in the US military leadership: Those who follow...